MEET OUR DEMANDS: Katikkiro Joseph Ssemwogerere

THE Katikkiro of Buganda, Joseph Ssemwogerere, meets President Yoweri Museveni on Tuesday to discuss Buganda's demands. He told Hamis Kaheru exactly what Buganda wants:

QUESTION: Baganda seem to be unhappy with the constitutional review process. Why?

ANSWER: Whereas we rejected the Charter in the 1995 Constitution, the Ssempebwa Commission recommended that the districts that form a regional tier should have representatives from district councils to form a Constituency Assembly (CA). This CA would prepare a constitution for each regional tier.

But to our surprise, although both the 1995 Constitution and the Ssempebwa Commission recommended a constitution for each tier, Cabinet is saying the tier should not have a separate constitution. Cabinet says the Constitution of Uganda should take care of all the peculiarities of the various areas. We do not think that this is a step towards federalism. We think this is LC6 and we are not looking! for LC6.

Q: What do you want then?

A: We would like the democratically elected representatives from the districts to team up with the present Lukiiko, form the CA and prepare a constitution for our tier.

This constitution should not be in contravention of or contradiction with the national constitution.

Q: Has Cabinet rejected the proposed regional constitution?

A: They don't want it. But Ssempebwa recommended a constitution and 1995 recommended a constitution. The Cabinet seems to think that we should not have separate constitutions. But we don't think that can be called Federo.

Q: What would be in the tier's constitution that can't be catered for in the national constitution?

A: The national Constitution cannot take care of the peculiarities of Buganda. We have got our culture and it has nothing to do with the rest of Uganda.

The Constitution of Uganda undertakes to respect people's various cultures and the quest for Federo is to take care of the special peculiarities of various areas in terms of development, culture and peace.

Q: What would be the Kabaka's role under a regional constitution?
A: The Kabaka was removed from politics in 1955 and we have no intention of bringing him back to politics because the chief executive is the Katikkiro.

Q: Do you want power to collect taxes under Federo?

A: We don't like to collect taxes at all. The central government should continue to collect taxes and give back what we deserve.

Q: There is suspicion that Baganda want Federo so they can chase away non-Baganda.

A: Non-Baganda have been living in Buganda for a very long time. I do not remember of anybody who has ever been chased from Buganda for being a non-Muganda.

I know of people who have been chased from other areas just because they do not belong there, for example in Kibaale, Teso, Toro and Kasese but not in Buganda. Buganda is extremely accommodating. Buganda is the only place where you can have non-Baganda MPs. They are about 10 or more. So, the accusation is of course totally untrue.

Q: You are asking for 9,000 sq. miles of land. What is it about?

A: This is unallocated land which was preserved for future generations of Buganda and it was protected by the colonial government. On October 8, 1962 this land was handed over to Buganda and we set up Buganda Land Board (BLB).

When Obote abolished the 1962 Constitution he confiscated all the property and assets of Buganda and the 9,000sq. miles became Crown Land. When President Yoweri Museveni comes to correct the wrongs, instead of returning the land to Buganda he gives it to the districts. The Kabaka is here. Why not give it back to him?

Q: Where is this land and who is managing it today?

A: In Kiboga, Luweero, Sembabule etc. We don't count that of Buyaga and Bugangayizi because it went back to Bunyoro in a referendum.

Of course, it is no longer 9,000sq. miles because districts have allocated themselves this land. But there are some unallocated patches. We want the BLB to control this land. We can still keep the district land committees but they work on behalf of the BLB. They can allocate and send returns. This is not freehold. It is leasehold.

Q: What is the government's response to this suggestion?

A: They are suggesting that the land remains in the district and we are saying No.

Q: Have you convinced other regions to accept federalism?

A: When the government fell in love with decentralisation, they went out and taught it. They started with Mukono District as a test case. When they found out that it was doing well, they spread it all over the place. Why don't they do the same with Federo?

The reason why governments don't want to give Federo is because of division of power and resources.

Q: Do you accept the idea of Mengo Municipality?

A: Yes. Mengo Municipality would take care of our cultural sites. The municipality will have a mayor. It will not be headed by the Kabaka. The Kabaka is the head of Buganda. Kampala can be the capital city for all Ugandans while Mengo Municipality belongs to Buganda.

Q: Is it a trade off? That you get Mengo Municipality and Kampala remains outside Buganda?

A: A distinction must be made between Kampala, the commercial city and Kampala, the capital city. The commercial city can expand but the capital city's boundaries should not change.

Q: Shed more light on that.
A: Bidandi Ssali had suggested that if Mengo Municipality is curved out of Kampala, then another area (Kira Sub-county) should be cut from Buganda to compensate for the loss and we are saying No.

Buganda is opposed to curving out of Wakiso District any part of it for the purposes of curving out! Kampala city.

Q: What's wrong with adding Kira Sub-county to Kampala?

A: The capital city is the property of the central government and its boundaries should not change. But the commercial city can continue expanding even into the adjacent municipalities and beyond because we don't want to restrict development. Like it is with Washington DC in the US which extends to Virginia and other places. People can continue building up to other areas, including Kira, but the boundaries of the capital city should be delineated and remain static.

Q: What areas fall within the capital city's boundaries?

A: The capital city covers Makerere, Nsambya barracks, Old Kampala, Wandegeya, Kira Road, Naguru, Nakawa, Mbuya, Bugolobi, Nakivubo Channel, Nakasero, Kololo, Queens Way and Kisenyi.

Q: Those developments which spread across the boundary would not be counted as being in the capital city?

A: Yes, because the capital city is political and administrative. What does the government want from those areas? They don't have anything there.

Parliament, the central government's headquarters, Mulago Hospital, Makerere University, KCC offices are all here. So what do they want from those areas outside the capital?

Q: Do you accept that Kampala remains outside Buganda when you get Mengo Municipality?

A: At the moment they are saying Kampala District is outside Buganda. We don't accept that. But the government accepts to delineate Kampala capital city from Mengo Municipality where our cultural sites are and we agree to that.

Kampala then remains the capital city of the country, for all of us. But of course that doesn't remove it from being in Buganda. You don't have to mention in the Constitution that it is in Buganda.

Even if you don't mention it in the Constitution, we also don't want you to mention that it is not, because it is. It was started by Ssekabaka Mutesa I.

Sunday Vision Published on: Sunday, 1st August, 2004